There are a set of tells that are only available online due to the buttons that allow entering of play prior to your turn.
While predetermining a preflop fold will not hurt your play you should wait until the action reaches you then act as soon as possible.
Depending on the texture of the game I find I can sometimes steal pots on the turn, from the blind, when a garbage flop is rapid checked and the turn is also a brick (i.e. unlikely to pair anyone).
While predetermining a preflop fold will not hurt your play you should wait until the action reaches you then act as soon as possible.
Depending on the texture of the game I find I can sometimes steal pots on the turn, from the blind, when a garbage flop is rapid checked and the turn is also a brick (i.e. unlikely to pair anyone).
I have found it much more difficult than live games. I've only won 1 out of six single table tourneys which doesnt pay. I have always been good at reading players across the table which is completely taken away...how do you get to know the other players when all you see is names and chips? The game also moves very quick which is something else I am having trouble with
Charlie-
Here are a few comments:
1) Unless you live near a cardroom that offers unique tournaments, I doubt that you have played enough live single table tourneys to compare to your online experience. I've played live in AC and Vegas and have never seen 1 table tourneys offered (other than satellites).
2) You can develop reads on you opponents online as well. Just think about it a bit and read a few of the posts here. Admittedly, it is far easier to pick up a tell in person. Personally, I think tells are pretty overrated in live limit hold em play. I know people look for these things and you can usually tell who is so I often toss in a reverse tell when I play live.
(Unrelated to the reverse tell)...Once I had a tell reader to my left and I raised preflop with AK and he called JT offsuit cold and everyone else folded so it was heads up. He spiked a 10 on the turn and checked the river and shouted "I knew it" when I turned over my unimproved AK. As he was raking the pot, I said, you knew what...that you were an underdog before the flop and after the flop?!?!!? Point is, I didn't bluff, I played it straight and this guy thought he read something. To this day I have no idea what he "knew."
3) Some have said that online players are tougher than live players at the same limit. I'm on the fence here. I do not play enough live limit hold em to make a fair comparison. Online I'm dealt almost 3x the number of hands compared to the same time period live. I'm convinced that while I've only played online a short period of time, I've already played far more online hands than live hands due to the speed of the game.
In my experience, I've played VERY tough 5/10 online and wild and crazy 5/10 in person. I've played crazy 8/16 and 10/20 live and crazier 10/20 online. I've played easy and tough 2/4 and 3/6 online and live. I think it varies.
4) The sturcture of the single table tournaments does not necessarily reward the best play. After the first couple of rounds the blinds are so large that you often have to play hands that you would never play. I've had moderate success at these tournaments but I generally play only when I can't find a ring game to my liking.
If you play online at the larger sites, it is VERY difficult to get to know your opponents since the tables turnover so frequently. MOre importantly, unless you are playing high buy-in single table tournaments at strange hours of the day, the likelihood of you seeing the same players in the tourneys is slim. Because of this, IMHO, it is important to have a SOLID game steeped in fundamentals. I categorize my opponents generally and go from there.
ONE TIP: GET HAND HISTORIES FREQUENTLY. At most limits online the hands will go to a showdown. If there is play that seems strange to you, the winning hand is unexpected, or players with whom you are not familiar order the hand history immediately. It will show you the final hands of everyone who went to showdown. At that point you can make general assumptions about your opponents' play in various situations when they hold certain cards. This is invaluable. I find that it makes it easier for me to know "what" kind of players I'm playing with then I can focus on my game.
Here are a few comments:
1) Unless you live near a cardroom that offers unique tournaments, I doubt that you have played enough live single table tourneys to compare to your online experience. I've played live in AC and Vegas and have never seen 1 table tourneys offered (other than satellites).
2) You can develop reads on you opponents online as well. Just think about it a bit and read a few of the posts here. Admittedly, it is far easier to pick up a tell in person. Personally, I think tells are pretty overrated in live limit hold em play. I know people look for these things and you can usually tell who is so I often toss in a reverse tell when I play live.
(Unrelated to the reverse tell)...Once I had a tell reader to my left and I raised preflop with AK and he called JT offsuit cold and everyone else folded so it was heads up. He spiked a 10 on the turn and checked the river and shouted "I knew it" when I turned over my unimproved AK. As he was raking the pot, I said, you knew what...that you were an underdog before the flop and after the flop?!?!!? Point is, I didn't bluff, I played it straight and this guy thought he read something. To this day I have no idea what he "knew."
3) Some have said that online players are tougher than live players at the same limit. I'm on the fence here. I do not play enough live limit hold em to make a fair comparison. Online I'm dealt almost 3x the number of hands compared to the same time period live. I'm convinced that while I've only played online a short period of time, I've already played far more online hands than live hands due to the speed of the game.
In my experience, I've played VERY tough 5/10 online and wild and crazy 5/10 in person. I've played crazy 8/16 and 10/20 live and crazier 10/20 online. I've played easy and tough 2/4 and 3/6 online and live. I think it varies.
4) The sturcture of the single table tournaments does not necessarily reward the best play. After the first couple of rounds the blinds are so large that you often have to play hands that you would never play. I've had moderate success at these tournaments but I generally play only when I can't find a ring game to my liking.
If you play online at the larger sites, it is VERY difficult to get to know your opponents since the tables turnover so frequently. MOre importantly, unless you are playing high buy-in single table tournaments at strange hours of the day, the likelihood of you seeing the same players in the tourneys is slim. Because of this, IMHO, it is important to have a SOLID game steeped in fundamentals. I categorize my opponents generally and go from there.
ONE TIP: GET HAND HISTORIES FREQUENTLY. At most limits online the hands will go to a showdown. If there is play that seems strange to you, the winning hand is unexpected, or players with whom you are not familiar order the hand history immediately. It will show you the final hands of everyone who went to showdown. At that point you can make general assumptions about your opponents' play in various situations when they hold certain cards. This is invaluable. I find that it makes it easier for me to know "what" kind of players I'm playing with then I can focus on my game.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tekari:
swami good tip about checking to see what they had at showdown.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately, you cannot do this too frequently during live games else you will be strung up from the rafters. On occasion I do ask to see the losing hand and get funny looks and comments. I don't mind confrontation but I do try to follow the rules of etiquette and keep the game moving at a decent pace.
swami good tip about checking to see what they had at showdown.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately, you cannot do this too frequently during live games else you will be strung up from the rafters. On occasion I do ask to see the losing hand and get funny looks and comments. I don't mind confrontation but I do try to follow the rules of etiquette and keep the game moving at a decent pace.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ONE TIP: GET HAND HISTORIES FREQUENTLY. At most limits online the hands will go to a showdown. If there is play that seems strange to you, the winning hand is unexpected, or players with whom you are not familiar order the hand history immediately. It will show you the final hands of everyone who went to showdown. At that point you can make general assumptions about your opponents' play in various situations when they hold certain cards. This is invaluable. I find that it makes it easier for me to know "what" kind of players I'm playing with then I can focus on my game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you know how to do this in party poker? The hand history doesnt seem to show what opponents had if they mucked their hand
Do you know how to do this in party poker? The hand history doesnt seem to show what opponents had if they mucked their hand
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tekari:
More than 1 person has to call the river? If I bet the river and get a caller, and then he mucks after I show my hand, would I be able to see the mucked hand if I requested it in email?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry...I misspoke there just a bit. As long as there are >=2 people at showdown (meaning a player MUST show his hand in order to win)then you can see all hands played to showdown.
In your example you will be able to see the other player's hand as well as yours.
After rereading my post I can see how an experienced player could misconstrue what I wrote.
[This message was edited by theswami on January 26, 2004 at 03:03 PM.]
More than 1 person has to call the river? If I bet the river and get a caller, and then he mucks after I show my hand, would I be able to see the mucked hand if I requested it in email?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry...I misspoke there just a bit. As long as there are >=2 people at showdown (meaning a player MUST show his hand in order to win)then you can see all hands played to showdown.
In your example you will be able to see the other player's hand as well as yours.
After rereading my post I can see how an experienced player could misconstrue what I wrote.
[This message was edited by theswami on January 26, 2004 at 03:03 PM.]
